Diawa BG and rod question

Hi all. Excited to be heading back for my 8th annual trip to fort morgan. It's around this time that i start to really think about my gear and what I need to get ready. Over the years I've noticed that it seems like having two large surf set ups would be better than the one I currently run (seems like a logical conclusion). Normally I have the big rod soaking bait (or very occasionally throwing big spoons/jigs/poppers, etc) and i work a smaller 7' rod with a stradic 3500 in the shallows trying for flounder and the like.

Been looking at the Diawa BG reels and trying to figure out their sizing. I currently have an old (impossible to kill) Penn 7500SS on a 10' Star Rod that I like (but the 7500 is overkill for most of what I'm catching in the surf. It casts just fine, but it isn't a reel you want to be casting more than you have to and was built in the 90s when weight apparently wasn't measurable!

That being said, which size Diawa would still feel about right for a 10' surf rod and be able to handle most anything that lurks in the first few cuts but isn't a monster like the Penn. I wouldn't mind it being something i could cast big lures/spoons/jigs with if the fish were a ways out. I had been considering the Penn Spinfisher V in about a 5000 size, but i know Diawa sizing is different, and maybe i can get away with something lighter but still powerful enough. Generally I use mono on the big reels.

Bonus question, is 10' the right size rod or would you go 10"6' or 9'? I tend to wade out up to around chest deep with the 10' rod and give a 4oz pyramid sinker with a fish finder rig a good heave and then walk back to shore and stake it.

Anyway, glad to be back and hope to hear from some of you that have been really helpful over the years. Hope everyone is healthy and doing well.

I bought a diawa bg 5000....thinking similar in size to my penn 550.....but bigger! Smooth and cast good caught a 28lb king with it and did great...also a 20lb broke off at the pier.....good looking reel and not expensive....holds plenty of line(330yrds 30lb braid, with a bunch of mono top shot 15 or 17lb?) drag was real smooth....I like it better then the penn battles I own.....I think the 5000 is manual bail flip....where the 4000 is crank and manual if you prefer.....it was on my trolley king rod for the trial run using it


http://i65.tinypic.com/vrzvk2.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ironman172

I bought a diawa bg 5000....thinking similar in size to my penn 550.....but bigger! Smooth and cast good caught a 28lb king with it and did great...also a 20lb broke off at the pier.....good looking reel and not expensive....holds plenty of line(330yrds 30lb braid, with a bunch of mono top shot 15 or 17lb?) drag was real smooth....I like it better then the penn battles I own.....I think the 5000 is manual bail flip....where the 4000 is crank and manual if you prefer.....it was on my trolley king rod for the trial run using it


http://i65.tinypic.com/vrzvk2.jpg

---

Thanks Ironman! Would the 4000 or 4500 be way too small? The biggest thing I've ever pulled in was about a 15+# red and while the 7500 had no problems doing that, I'm sure I could have also pulled that in with a 5000 Battle. I was thinking that this set up could be my "light but long" one, that would allow for chucking bait, but also cast and reel. The 7500 is no cast and reel reel and i know the 3000FJ stradic I have isn't big enough to be on a 9 or 10' rod.

I wouldn't be casting the bg 5000 too many times(why used for trolley fishing).....but then I king fish with the 706 live baiting....it was a larger framed reel then what I expected off the internet order....similar to the 6000 or even 7000 battle....larger then the vs 150 or penn torgue 5.....can't say anything on the size of the 4000 bg but would have preferred that after seeing the bg 5000....oh well I own it now....but a nice reel for the money.....believe it would handle most anything out there

If possible go look and hold them....the reels are worth the money, just depends what feels good to you....most likely it will remain my trolley reel (replaced the vs 150)??

I use the 4000 bg on a 9' rod casting up to 2oz spoons and jigs for stripers. I've caught a few 20 lb fish and more smaller fish in the 5-10 lb range than I can remember. It's performed flawlessly for the last year and a half. The 4000 is not a manual flip bail but I've been treating it like it is. It's light enough that I don't mind spending a morning or longer casting with it. It holds around 300 yards of the braid that I put on it, but I can't remember if it was 20 lb or 30. It's one of my favorite reels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fordguy

I use the 4000 bg on a 9' rod casting up to 2oz spoons and jigs for stripers. I've caught a few 20 lb fish and more smaller fish in the 5-10 lb range than I can remember. It's performed flawlessly for the last year and a half. The 4000 is not a manual flip bail but I've been treating it like it is. It's light enough that I don't mind spending a morning or longer casting with it. It holds around 300 yards of the braid that I put on it, but I can't remember if it was 20 lb or 30. It's one of my favorite reels.

---

Thanks fordguy! that is helpful. I'm struggling between the 3500 and the 4000 size and i think i'm going with a 9' rod. I realize the 10' gets me a bit more distance on the cast, but it's just that much more weight and length to deal with. Do you think the 3500 would feel balanced on a 9' surf rod or would it be too small?

I'm guessing that you are saying the 3500 could probably have hauled in everything you've caught so far on the 4000?

yes, the 3500 would probably have worked just as well. The only difference between the 3500 and the 4000 is spool size (as far as i can see). There's only two tenths of an ounce difference in weight and both have a 17.6 lb drag. The 3500 would do well on any of the lighter 9' surf rods that I use for casting 3 oz or less total weight. The 4000 feels a little small on the 8' okuma longitude rod that I have though.

I use an uglystik elite 9' xheavy 3/4-3 oz salmon/steelhead rod. Matches perfectly with the 4000 and it works great as a casting surf rod and it has enough backbone to handle decent sized fish while still making the smaller fish fun. Plugs, spoons and jigs. I've also used it with a pomp rig, but it makes more sense to be casting with it and letting my designated bait soakers do their job.

What was up with all the barricade?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by john g

What was up with all the barricade?

---

Safety bs, while they were doing the new conduit and wiring for the lights.....now above the deck, under the bottom rail on the railing.....where it always should have been for future repairs (easy access)

Hey fordguy, is it even normal these days to use a reel like the BG 4000 with ALL mono? i use braid on my smaller set up, but I don't fish that often and i know the braid on the big surf rods can tear your hands up something fierce if you mess up a cast or screw up in general. When looking at a lot of reels i've noticed many don't even quote mono yardage capacities anymore. I use 20# Ande Back Country on my Penn 7500 SS and have been generally happy. I realize what I'm giving up with casting distance by using all mono, but i also want to keep my fingers intact. wasn't sure if braid had become more forgiving. Also, finding someone in dallas to spool up a reel with mono backing, braid and possible mono topshot isn't easy.

Normal- its really a subjective term. If I were going to use mono on the 4000 I would probably not use anything heavier than 15 lb. More likely I would use 10 or 12 lb and just plan on casting 1.5 oz or less. You'll sacrifice some line capacity that way but it should work just fine.
As far as using braid goes, if you're doing a lot of casting with anything heavier than 1.5 oz you're going to need to tighten your drag before casting, then loosen it before the retrieve, and or use a glove to protect your finger. Some braid will cut you much more easily than others. I love fire line fused braid, I use it (14 lb) on one of my salt striker inshore 4000 reels. I've been sliced by it a few times but only when casting 1.5 oz spoons. When I stay with 1 oz or less I haven't had a problem. Fire line is more of a flat braid. When I use a heavier braid (30-40 lb) in a round profile I haven't been cut even while using up to 2 oz lures. I've had it burn me a few times though and you still need to remember to keep a tighter drag while casting to avoid the line slipping over your finger. I've also seen people use medical tape on their index finger where they hold the braid while casting. There's also a device (cast cannon?) That holds your line for you while you cast, but I'm not familiar with it and have never used it.

Braid has its pros and cons if you're careful, the extra casting distance and increased strength and sensitivity can be a huge plus. Downsides are that it has less abrasion resistance than mono, the worry about being cut or burned, expense, and that it doesn't absorb shock like mono does (so use a mono leader).
Mono is cheap, but has memory. The heavier mono you use the more casting distance and line capacity you give up.
It all boils down to what you prefer for a given situation. If I'm surf or tailrace fishing I'll usually be using braid. If I'm on the pier and its crowded I'll be using mono almost exclusively. Braid and mono tangled together make an awful mess.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fordguy

Normal- its really a subjective term. If I were going to use mono on the 4000 I would probably not use anything heavier than 15 lb. More likely I would use 10 or 12 lb and just plan on casting 1.5 oz or less. You'll sacrifice some line capacity that way but it should work just fine.
As far as using braid goes, if you're doing a lot of casting with anything heavier than 1.5 oz you're going to need to tighten your drag before casting, then loosen it before the retrieve, and or use a glove to protect your finger. Some braid will cut you much more easily than others. I love fire line fused braid, I use it (14 lb) on one of my salt striker inshore 4000 reels. I've been sliced by it a few times but only when casting 1.5 oz spoons. When I stay with 1 oz or less I haven't had a problem. Fire line is more of a flat braid. When I use a heavier braid (30-40 lb) in a round profile I haven't been cut even while using up to 2 oz lures. I've had it burn me a few times though and you still need to remember to keep a tighter drag while casting to avoid the line slipping over your finger. I've also seen people use medical tape on their index finger where they hold the braid while casting. There's also a device (cast cannon?) That holds your line for you while you cast, but I'm not familiar with it and have never used it.

Braid has its pros and cons if you're careful, the extra casting distance and increased strength and sensitivity can be a huge plus. Downsides are that it has less abrasion resistance than mono, the worry about being cut or burned, expense, and that it doesn't absorb shock like mono does (so use a mono leader).
Mono is cheap, but has memory. The heavier mono you use the more casting distance and line capacity you give up.
It all boils down to what you prefer for a given situation. If I'm surf or tailrace fishing I'll usually be using braid. If I'm on the pier and its crowded I'll be using mono almost exclusively. Braid and mono tangled together make an awful mess.

Hope this helps.

---

Thanks. very helpful. I always lock down the drag when I'm casting the big rod with the 20# mono because my hands are always wet, I'm in chest deep water with a 10' rod and I'm throwing a 4oz (sometimes even a 4oz pyramid and 1oz add on). I've had it go wrong enough times to know that without that drag locked down I'd be in a world of hurt, even with mono.

Generally I've used a fluro leader with my mono set up, due to the increased test limit and invisibility factor. So I could either do that or switch to a mono leader if going with braid.

I'm leaning towards using a heavy test braid so that it's thicker and maybe more forgiving. The reality is that the kind of fishing we tend to do in the surf directly out front of our rental house is chuck a sliding 4oz weight with a 3 foot fluoro leader with a circle hook with a piece of fresh dead shrimp on it. And that is probably what this new BG reel would end up doing 70% of the time, but I would like to have the option of throwing bucktails and spoons and lures if possible. Seems like a round profile braid of 30# test or higher might be the ticket.

Any thoughts on J-Braid? i see that talked about a lot. Last time I bought braid it was Suffix 832 and was for my stradic 3000fj, so totally different use. that braid has been awesome and i can cast a country mile with a 7' inshore rod and that reel.

I'm not sure I'd like throwing that much weight(4 oz plus) with my 4000 bg, I'd probably my want to step up at least to the 4500, but that means a manual bail (no big deal) and a significant increase in size and weight. On the up side, the 4500 has a stronger drag and more line capacity.
I've never used j braid, but I know people who use it and like it. The best bang for your buck with a round braid that I've found was kast king Fortis (gasp! Lol. I know a lot of people don't have good things to say about the brand). They don't make it anymore unfortunately. I bought several 500 yard spools when places were trying to get rid of it. I'm still using it on several of my heavier reels in 30 and 40 lb and I have a 3000 daiwa lexa spinner with 15 lb that I caught a fat 5 lb hybrid on last week. There may still be some of the fortis braid floating around for sale somewhere. I got mine for around 10$ a spool. Power pro is middle of the line braid from my experience. When I use less than 30 lb I seem to end up with a lot of wind knots. When I use 30-40 lb it works pretty well. Haven't used the suffix braid either.
I've used both mono and fluoro leaders and haven't noticed a significant difference between the two other than price. Worth mentioning though that most of the species I'm fishing for aren't particularly line shy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fordguy

I'm not sure I'd like throwing that much weight(4 oz plus) with my 4000 bg, I'd probably my want to step up at least to the 4500, but that means a manual bail (no big deal) and a significant increase in size and weight. On the up side, the 4500 has a stronger drag and more line capacity.
I've never used j braid, but I know people who use it and like it. The best bang for your buck with a round braid that I've found was kast king Fortis (gasp! Lol. I know a lot of people don't have good things to say about the brand). They don't make it anymore unfortunately. I bought several 500 yard spools when places were trying to get rid of it. I'm still using it on several of my heavier reels in 30 and 40 lb and I have a 3000 daiwa lexa spinner with 15 lb that I caught a fat 5 lb hybrid on last week. There may still be some of the fortis braid floating around for sale somewhere. I got mine for around 10$ a spool. Power pro is middle of the line braid from my experience. When I use less than 30 lb I seem to end up with a lot of wind knots. When I use 30-40 lb it works pretty well. Haven't used the suffix braid either.
I've used both mono and fluoro leaders and haven't noticed a significant difference between the two other than price. Worth mentioning though that most of the species I'm fishing for aren't particularly line shy.

---

Sorry for delayed response. I didn't see you had replied. I never gave a ton of thought to the 4oz on the 4000 situation, but seems worth considering. The situation I'm in is trying to find the lightest reel that has enough power to surf in the gulf side of Ft. Morgan peninsula. Clearly the penn 7500ss has more than enough umph to get the job done, but it weighs 27 ounces and with a 10' rod, will wear you out fast if trying to do anything more than just chucking pomp rigs with 4oz pyramid sinkers.

I was hoping that the BG 4000 paired with the 9' ugly stik elite would allow me to do the same, but also lighten the load and give me a good long casting plugging/gotcha/large bucktail type of set up. But that isn't how I fish 80% of the time.

I don't mind the manual bail at all (i treat my stradic like a manual in order to avoid braid complications). It's the size and weight that I was hoping to keep to a minimum. But if if 4000 can't handle a 4oz sinker on a pomp rig, that's probably not good for me. Do you think the 4000 could handle it, but wouldn't be your preference, or do you think it would really put the reel to a point that reeling it in against current or with seaweed on the line and a fish and a sinker would just be too much?

Considering that the BG is a fairly stout reel and it's held up to some much larger fish than the mid-sized stripers that I intended to use it for, I bet it would do what you're wanting it to do. The question is how long you want it to last. The tension and stress put on the reel components slinging 5 oz (4 oz lead plus bait) is considerable. Since I've never tried to throw that much weight with it, I'm really just guessing. If you were only going to sling weight and bait with it once in a while and would primarily use if for 1-2 oz bucktails, plugs, etc. I'd be more likely to give it my endorsement. When I fish for pomps I generally use 2 oz weight plus some small shrimp pieces or fishbites (if I'm not casting a looney jig for them, which can be a lot of fun). When Daiwa puts together combos for retailers to sell with this reel they pair it with a MH inshore 7' rod. I haven't seen a listing for the rating on the rod/combo but i'm guessing that it doesn't come close to 5 oz total weight. Again, this doesn't mean that it won't do it- and I wish I could be more helpful but I seldom use more than 2 oz in the surf. Call me a fair weather surf fisherman. lol It's a case where it might be tough to find a reel that will be great for both of your applications and still keep the weight as low as you want it. Same thing with rods. The ugly stik 9' x-heavy rod is rated 3/4-3 0z and while I'm sure it could be used for both of your types of fishing I'm not sure it's the best for slinging that much weight either. I've never tried casting that much weight with it. It does great with plugs, poppers and jigs in the 1-2 oz range though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fordguy

Considering that the BG is a fairly stout reel and it's held up to some much larger fish than the mid-sized stripers that I intended to use it for, I bet it would do what you're wanting it to do. The question is how long you want it to last. The tension and stress put on the reel components slinging 5 oz (4 oz lead plus bait) is considerable. Since I've never tried to throw that much weight with it, I'm really just guessing. If you were only going to sling weight and bait with it once in a while and would primarily use if for 1-2 oz bucktails, plugs, etc. I'd be more likely to give it my endorsement. When I fish for pomps I generally use 2 oz weight plus some small shrimp pieces or fishbites (if I'm not casting a looney jig for them, which can be a lot of fun). When Daiwa puts together combos for retailers to sell with this reel they pair it with a MH inshore 7' rod. I haven't seen a listing for the rating on the rod/combo but i'm guessing that it doesn't come close to 5 oz total weight. Again, this doesn't mean that it won't do it- and I wish I could be more helpful but I seldom use more than 2 oz in the surf. Call me a fair weather surf fisherman. lol It's a case where it might be tough to find a reel that will be great for both of your applications and still keep the weight as low as you want it. Same thing with rods. The ugly stik 9' x-heavy rod is rated 3/4-3 0z and while I'm sure it could be used for both of your types of fishing I'm not sure it's the best for slinging that much weight either. I've never tried casting that much weight with it. It does great with plugs, poppers and jigs in the 1-2 oz range though.

---

Definitely appreciate all your considerations. I ended up going with the 4000 and I'm going to try and keep the weight a bit lower (maybe try to use 3oz pyramid to hold bottom with braid) vs the 4oz I normally use. it will be an experiment. if it all blows up in my face, it will have cost me $100 for the reel on slamazon with free 1 day delivery AND i will get to make a trip to J&M while I'm in town.

next up, rod and line selection. Ugly stik Elite as you suggested is definitely in the mix. Ideally looking for 9' that is rated up to 25# line and 4oz lure, but not too heavy on the bottom end of the lure rating so that I can still toss 1oz without it feeling all wrong.