A Legal Question, Tell me your thoughts, Please!!!

I don't have a gaff or a net that will work off the Pier. So, I got a big treble hook, attatched it to a very light cable and then to my 50# Mono on my 30# class boat rod and my Penn 6/0 reel. First of all, will that work as a gaff off of the pier during the Winter months? Secondly, is it legal? Pier rules prohibit reels larger than a 4.0, I'm not sure what size a 4.0 is, should it have read 4/0? I will not be fishing with the outfit, only using it as a gaff, off the Pier, if you guys think that it would work. I was going to bring the boat rod & reel along in case we decide to go out on a party boat. A lot of times their equipment is not the best and I can not use that outfit on the trout streams up here. One more question, are we going to run into any sharks around there during the Winter months? THANKS GUYS!!!!!

First, a 4/0 or a 6/0 reel is exactly that, four/ought or six/ought. Therefore, your reel would not be allowed on the pier per their rules. Secondly, a large treble hook attached to a light rope would work just fine. Usually there are other fisherman/ women on the pier that have nets/ gaff hooks that would be happy to help you land a "big un" or let you use them.Third, Sharks havnt been a problem since to water temp has cooled down. Havnt seen one in weeks.

​Not much need for a gaff in winter, net is best way to go.
The rig you described sounds more frustrating than useful. If you are not wanting to go the net route for Sheepies, get the biggest snatch hook you can find (J & M or Brunson Net) and attach it to about 35 feet of parachute cord.

Just my opinion, and some would say: "Why poke holes in a perfectly good fish?"

That really seems like a lot of trouble to me Don t over complicate it You won t need much more than a pier net in the winter I carry both a large pier net and a gaft and would be happy to help you land your fish with either Others in the pier family do the same or just get you a net for $25-30 It would be worth the investment I m still trying to figure out how you are going to hold a big fish on one rod and gaft it with another As I said don t over complicate it If you have a fish that needs netting I assure you we ll be there to help

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Originally Posted by FinChaser

​Not much need for a gaff in winter, net is best way to go.
The rig you described sounds more frustrating than useful. If you are not wanting to go the net route for Sheepies, get the biggest snatch hook you can find (J & M or Brunson Net) and attach it to about 35 feet of parachute cord.

Just my opinion, and some would say: "Why poke holes in a perfectly good fish?"

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I found Brunson's snatch hooks are junk, broke 2 of the treble's off just barely hitting the deck the first and only day using it....I see why they are inexpensive ....J&M is the place to buy a snatch hook
can't wait to get back and do a little more snatching.....I had a blast with the mullet(like a kid with a new toy) ....I do own 12 snatch hooks now :D

Uh-oh, Ironman's got the snatching fever. I guess I'd better get a helmet, and it should have some sort of face guard to protect my delicate good looks. Maybe get one of those arm pads like they use to train attack dogs to absorb the blows from errant flying trebles. If his snatch hooks are as deadly as his pier gaffs, all living creatures should be on the alert.

Thank you guys!!!! I will pick up a net and a 35' cord at J&M. The guy that I will usually be fishing with, if it is not to early in the morning, is a retired lawyer from St. Paul (aka Minnesota on the Forum) and he would not let me do anything illegal by using the 6/0 reel on the Pier. Not that I would if I knew that it was illegal, but I thought that it might be o.k. if just used as a gaff. He is the only retired lawyer I know of that has NEVER been in a courtroom on either side of the law. It's good to hear from you Ironman! How many guys have you tried to kill? I know of two, Fin with a Bubble Rig and Haywire with a Snatch Hook, any others? THANKS GUYS!!!!

Dang.....I have only used a bubble a couple of times....your in luck, I won't be there so leave your football helmet at home.....and yes setting the hook with a snatch hook can get messy when missed

I will have the proper equipment for this, my next time down ....both rod and reel....for snatching
a googan for sure with a new toy....It's all Chef's fault

Flyguy, if I might make a suggestion, when you get your new net, immediately replace the rope that comes with it with a heavier one---not that you need the additional strength, and I hope you do, but the extra diameter will make hauling the the fish up a LOT easier on your hands. It is also easier to untangle. When you get your new net to the pier, determine how much line you need and cut off the rest---again cuts way down on tangles. What ever excess rope you have can be used if we need to tie up Ironman to restrain him from snagging sharks, rays and dolphins.

By the way, that was me who tried to kill Fin with a bubble rig. He only survived due to his catlike reflexes and an extra thick T-shirt. Still gives me the shivers to think what would have happened if I'd gotten him with the hook instead of the bubble. I'm a lot more careful about looking behind me before I cast, now. He may be carrying a weapon next time.

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Originally Posted by Haywire

Flyguy, What ever excess rope you have can be used if we need to tie up Ironman to restrain him from snagging sharks, rays and dolphins.

By the way, that was me who tried to kill Fin with a bubble rig..

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Dang.....no need for extra rope, I will have extra long zip ties and duck tape to make it easier on you guys ....unless you just need practice on your rope knots.

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Originally Posted by ironman172

Dang.....I have only used a bubble a couple of times....your in luck, I won't be there so leave your football helmet at home.....and yes setting the hook with a snatch hook can get messy when missed

I will have the proper equipment for this, my next time down ....both rod and reel....for snatching
a googan for sure with a new toy....It's all Chef's fault

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You are right Bill, Justin started it all . I have invested in some snatch hooks ,just because you two looked like you were having too much fun for someone else not to join the party .I have learned that it is not just throwing and jerking . There are some technical skills involved in order to be successful . Roy is the true master !

Fly guy:
Sorry about the treble hook answer. I thought you were referring to a treble style gaff hook rather than a snatch hook. A snatch hook would be way to small and as anyone would tell you, a treble gaff would work but four hook gaffs are a lot more reliable. It seems the 3 hook gaffs are never facing the right direction.

+1 for the rope. Buy a net without a rope and get the thicker rope from a hardware/marine store. The thin poly ropes are not only slippery and get twisted/tangled easily but can be tough on the hands with heavier fish. J&M does have some reasonably priced nets and is a great place to shop. They probably have the rope you'll want too.

I would would much prefer a net so unwanted or undersized fish can be successfully released. The survival rate is much less if the fish is punched full of holes!!!

Good luck, the preparation is always part of the fun!

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Originally Posted by fshntime

Fly guy:
Sorry about the treble hook answer. I thought you were referring to a treble style gaff hook rather than a snatch hook. A snatch hook would be way to small and as anyone would tell you, a treble gaff would work but four hook gaffs are a lot more reliable. It seems the 3 hook gaffs are never facing the right direction.

+1 for the rope. Buy a net without a rope and get the thicker rope from a hardware/marine store. The thin poly ropes are not only slippery and get twisted/tangled easily but can be tough on the hands with heavier fish. J&M does have some reasonably priced nets and is a great place to shop. They probably have the rope you'll want too.

I would would much prefer a net so unwanted or undersized fish can be successfully released. The survival rate is much less if the fish is punched full of holes!!!

Good luck, the preparation is always part of the fun!

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Thank you for the advise on the proposed gaff, it was just another dumb idea, you guys have been there and that is why I asked. Experience is such a good teacher. You are so right about the preparation, I have been organizing for months and now I'm starting to assemble, after the holidays pack, drive and then "Fish ON!!!!" Thanks, Fshntime!!!!

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Originally Posted by ironman172

Dang.....no need for extra rope, I will have extra long zip ties and duck tape to make it easier on you guys ....unless you just need practice on your rope knots.

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Sorry, You two look so much alike!!

I haven't snatched in 35 years or so. As a kid, I'd snatch sheepshead because that was the only way that I could catch them. Now, I know that it was mostly my lack of skill/knowledge that kept me from catching them. Today, I don't pass judgement on those who snatch sheepshead legally because I used to fish for them that way. One also doesn't know about the circumstances of other fishermen and they might not be able to afford to buy live bait every time they go fishing.

That said, when it comes to mullet, there's a really good answer for "Why poke holes in a perfectly good fish?" - To catch them and put them in the cooler! You're not going to catch them any other way, if you can't use a large cast net. Mullet are really strong fighters, I like the way that they taste, and they're relatively easy to fillet.

Likely, I'll revisit snatching if for no other reason than putting me back in touch with my youth. For me, it's all about taking advantage of outdoor experiences and having fun!

Regarding gaffing vs netting, most of the time, I'm netting. I only gaff kings and cobia from the pier. I always have my pier net when I'm pier fishing so that other fishermen can borrow it if they need it.

Another legal question, can u only snatch sheepshead and mullet?

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Originally Posted by kastlemac85

Another legal question, can u only snatch sheepshead and mullet?

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in Alabama, anything but gamefish (speckled trout, redfish, tarpon).

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Originally Posted by Pier#r

in Alabama, anything but gamefish (speckled trout, redfish, tarpon).

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So a sheepshead is not a game fish?????????????

Nope, sheepshead is not a game fish. It is also commercially harvested, though not in large numbers. But many of the local seafood shops will have them.

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Originally Posted by CarlF

Nope, sheepshead is not a game fish. It is also commercially harvested, though not in large numbers. But many of the local seafood shops will have them.

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Thank you, Carl!! Is it considered to be unethical to do it? Like shooting a sitting duck, you just don't do it. I could see that it could work on sheepshead, if you wanted to catch a fish that way. At one time, in the 70's, you could "snag" salmon because they would die anyway and if you "snagged" them and kept them, they would,'t die and float to the shore and stink the place up. Now it's a $500.00 fine if you get caught with a foul hooked salmon. Many people do get caught foul hooking in the Fall when they spawn. The meat isn't very good when you catch them in that stage of their life, so I always release all of them in the Fall, foul hooked or not. It's hard to foul hook them when you are fly fishing but it does happen.

I personally frown on snatching Sheepshead. Just seems unsportman like especially during the spring when they readily can be caught with conventional rod , reel , live shrimp . Not sure why they are not considered a game fish. I know a lot of people disagree . Just my view .

I don't judge. Sure, most people can catch them with fiddler crabs or live shrimp or ghost shrimp in the Spring. But the circumstances of others may preclude them from being able to afford buying live bait. As long as it's legal, it's not my place to judge anyone for their catching methods. This is a good topic of discussion because it speaks of expectations of others who are obeying the law. It's my feeling that I can only reasonably meet my own expectations of myself. It's not especially reasonable or realistic for someone else to be expected to meet expectations of which they cannot possibly be aware, not that they would automatically comply with the expectations of strangers, anyway.

In other words, it makes sense for individuals to set their own sense of ethics for themselves only and to save judgement for those who are not in compliance with the law.

"Game Fish" is a protective label.

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Originally Posted by CarlF

Nope, sheepshead is not a game fish. It is also commercially harvested, though not in large numbers. But many of the local seafood shops will have them.

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150,000+ pounds a year is "large numbers" in my book. (roughly averaging 70,000 fish per year for the past 10). Mostly by gill net from Nov-Mar.
At least they didn't have any holes in them ;-)
The pier might average almost 10% of that (in a "good" year).

The average commercial landings was even higher 15 years ago...
over 500,000 pounds were reported in 2001 and the numbers have been falling almost every year since.
In fact the sheepshead that are over 8 pounds now probably were the ones that were spawned that year (IF their parents got the chance before being caught).

"And the beat goes on ."

with a disturbing trend...
http://www.gulfshorespierfishing.com...tid=3202&stc=1

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Originally Posted by Pier#r

150,000+ pounds a year is "large numbers" in my book. (roughly averaging 70,000 fish per year for the past 10). Mostly by gill net from Nov-Mar.
At least they didn't have any holes in them ;-)
The pier might average almost 10% of that (in a "good" year).

The average commercial landings was even higher 15 years ago...
over 500,000 pounds were reported in 2001 and the numbers have been falling almost every year since.
In fact the sheepshead that are over 8 pounds now probably were the ones that were spawned that year (IF their parents got the chance before being caught).

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Raw numbers don't always tell the story when it comes to commercial fishing. In recent years, with (up until very recently) regular increases in fuel prices, it's likely that the price-per-pound of sheepshead made it a less attractive target species for the commercial fishermen! That might account for the lower catch in total poundage - the commercial guys aren't fishing for them nearly as much because there's a tepid market. I caught 'em like crazy this spring and there were HUGE schools of Sheepshead like I hadn't seen in years. What we're talking about, primarily, is the sheepshead PIER fishery and I'm not convinced that a declining commercial market equals declining fish stocks for pier fishing. It may just be that there's not enough money in sheepshead to make it worth the fuel and manpower investment to harvest them, commercially. That suits me just fine, because their value to me lies mostly in their tugging power!

Question about the 4.0 reel size limit...that means that I am not able to use a Penn 550?

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Originally Posted by Extra_Medium

Question about the 4.0 reel size limit...that means that I am not able to use a Penn 550?

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No size restriction on spinning reels, just the large Senator style reels.
http://www.gulfshorespierfishing.com...tid=3203&stc=1

I think the designation for that reel is the Penn 113 or 113H. Been years since I looked at a new one. Looks like they've made a bunch of changes since I bought my last one.

I don't know the official story of how reels get to be named 3/0 or 12/0, but it seems from my observation that a reel holding approximately 300 yards of linen line (approximately same diameter as mono or Dacron) was described according to the pound test of that 300 yards. A 3/0 reel could hold 300 yards of 30, a 6/0 could hold approximately 300 of 60, etc. We also see reels and rods described as 30 lb or 50 lb tackle, relating to the size of line and amount of drag it can crank. Of course technology has changed so much that a tiny reel can crank far more drag than the old time reels and hold far more braid line than the old Dacron or mono. A penn 117 or 118 (the reel in Jaws that needed a bigger boat or some of the reels in Wicked Tuna), would be about a 14/0 or 16/0, but by that time the relationship I described has fallen out of sync.

this would be legal but not practical ,,,,I have seen a couple 50's out there ....good thing I am NO longer the owner, traded right before I left on our way north(Bay Minette 2am) for a Penn torque5 , sure would like to use it for cobia this spring

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It is not a dumb idea. I've used a large weighted treble years ago on a beefy spinning rod to "gaff" larger spanish. Just put 25 lb line on a 302, crank it down, and there you go. Just really not adequate on large fish.

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Originally Posted by ironman172

this would be legal but not practical ,,,,I have seen a couple 50's out there ....good thing I am NO longer the owner, traded right before I left on our way north(Bay Minette 2am) for a Penn torque5 , sure would like to use it for cobia this spring

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I've never tried to cast a 50 International, but I expect it would be hard put to get as much range as a larger Penn spinner. However, if you hooked a cobia using that reel, you'd be the boss of that match until the fish got to the pilings.

it took 2 to throw the bait out(sharkin) and not very far at that sure wish I had the Penn torque a few weeks before my departure, darn internet troubles in the condo sure did screw me this trip....never again in that one, a lot of negatives .....the only good thing was location, but still drove to the pier, so whether just around the corner or 8 miles away....and only got to J&M once....before, it was almost on the way....hard for me to drive by the pier to go there.