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I'll say right off that I don't have all the info on this but it seems there is a proposal to allow only drift bait/live bait fishing on the octi between the yellow lines (the "no bottom fishing" zone that is mostly the south end of the octi)
That would mean no buubles, gotcha's, X raps, etc. No "casting and retrieving". Interesting idea but it's sure to make a lot of folks howl. Think the one rod trolly affects some fishermen?
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I wonder where they are getting all these ideas aboout how to fish the pier? Sounds to me like a very small, select group of fishermen have the ear of the Powers.
Sounds to me like some fishermen need to get involved in the process. I keep hearing a one individual thats touting big changes that I have never seen fishing on the pier. Rules will always make some happy and some upset, but regardless, they need to make FISHING sense. I sure hope some of you guys that know what makes sense get involved. Big ideas of single rod trolley versus 2 rod trolly are a prime example of baselessly rules. We all know a 2 rod trolley can be worked around much easier than a one rod trolly, but the 2 rod trolley runs into the rule for using 2 rods. Well, thats where a rule change to make fishing sense can help. Just my opinion, but I hope some TRUE fishermen get involved. If you do please tell them to remove rule 18. Thats a violation of my Liberties guaranteed bu the BOR. Most don’t think thats a big deal, but its the offensive law broken on the pier in my opinion. If they wrote an individual a ticket for something they found opening a cooler without asking, they would lose in court. Im sure they are aware of that and will prob never write a ticket for an illegal search, because that would force them to change the Intimidation rule.
Well, that certainly would've solved the problem i had the last time i fished the pier in warm weather. Some genious was casting a spoon (i think) up the length of the pier from the north east corner of the octi. He hooked my line about a dozen times, and other's also- who were there with lines out drifting bait well before he graced us with his presence. Common sense would have taken care of the problem just as well. It's a shame that restrictions need to be considered to prevent careless/thoughtless/rude behaviour.
I sometimes use bubbles on the octi, but i try to pay attention to where everyone's lines are when i do. Not to say that accidents don't happen, but if I cant find a way to catch fish that isn't ruining the experience for someone else I'll either chamge methods or find a different location.
I've never trolley fished, but after watching a few guys the last time i was on the pier i did think I'd like to give it a try. The trolley rods didn't bother anyone even though there were a fair number of people fishing that day. It looked like a good way to keep an LY right where you want it.
Anyone reading this should take it with a grain of salt...and maybe a little garlic. If I'm lucky ill make it to the pier 10 times over the course of a year, so my pier experiences are unfortunately limited.
I just pulled the rules up on the web site for the GSPP and it says no Trolly Fishing allowed so somebody needs to figure out whats legal and whats not.
Just what we need. Folks that either have a dangerously limited knowledge of fishing or none at all, establishing rules for us all. Sounds quite a bit like our federal government in my humble opinion. Mr Hogman has it right knowledgeable folks need to be heard.
To me it sounds like the first thing needed is an agreed upon, clearly written process for rule changes. That in itself will be a challenge, but once established should help with these issues. Perhaps a rules committee or something. I am assuming this doesn't currently exist. Of course, the State would have the final say, but I think a rule change proposal process would help. Just my two cents.
One person who volunteered and by his own words has "nothing better to do"Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywire
I have no dog in the trolley fishing debate since I don't do it but the ones that do are less trouble than 75% of some people out there. I'm in full agreement that rules pertaining to our fishing should be implemented by a group that understands fishing. Having no idea of the process for rule changes all I can suggest is that we are vocal about what does and doesn't work and why then go about setting rules that fit the fishing methods that make sense.
For what it's worth the fishing rules are not the only changes being made-the pier house shop will undergo some because the same volunteer isn't happy with that either. There's a saying about good intentions and the road to hell and I think it applies here.
I also heard that the volunteer made a point to check all coolers as people came off the pier yesterday. I'm all for a warden or ranger checking coolers if he feels it's appropriate but I'm not comfortable with the idea that anyone else does. If he were to politely ask beforehand I might consider otherwise. Just my thoughts, I don't know the letter of the law but I think that's over the line.
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I sure would like to see who started the rumor of this rule change. Is it related to Russians invading the pier.
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Sounds like the DSSPP (Double Secret Squirrel Police Person) is watching and recording our every move. Be afraid........ :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman172
One observation I would make about restricting the end of the pier to drift fishing is that the "hot" king bite really just lasts 3 months (or so). That's going to make the end of the pier a pretty lonely place for much of the year.
Combine that with the shark problem and it really looks like it won't work to me. They had a rule like that on the old pier for a while and it was the same, the end of the pier was empty much of the time.
This is just like the upwind side of the pier not being very useful without trolleys, even on the octi.
Trying to make simple rules for complex problems won't work.
Quote:
To quote H.L. Mencken: "To every complex question there is a simple answer—and it's clever, neat, and wrong!"
I am a rule follower , but I will be breaking that oneQuote:
Originally Posted by david lea
While rules are open for discussion I think there is another that needs adjusting - I know this is minor, but...
To have a rule that only five hooks are allowed on a Sabiki while almost every Sabiki sold (including those sold at the pier) has six hooks is just silly. I understand the intent, but somebody needs to think a bit.
Making dumb rules that only cause trouble if enforced (or that are not enforced) causes a lack of respect for the rules.
That was just a misprint when somebody typed it up. It was suppose to be 6. The intent was to cut out the bait slingers throwing the great big ones with 12 on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by frednic
As i said, I understand the intent (and certainly agree), but things like this do affect the average man's perception of the reasonableness of the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert(Tato)Piteo
No matter how many rules are made we still must depend on the courtesy and common decency of our fellow men. Rules just will not cover everything.
I just want to point out that most visitors to the pier lack experience and understanding of saltwater fishing concepts we take for granted. Forget upcurrent vs downcurrent and which way is which on a given day. One rod at a time taxes them. Rods for 3 kids plus 2 adults tended by 1 adult while the other adult tends the kids is not what we think that rule means, any more than a bare-hook rod leaning on the rail while a bait rod is in use somewhere else. Explaining why a 2-rod trolley is not 2 rods at once is not going to be easy for them to swallow. Simple rules beget simple explanations, but more complex techniques suffer.
I can't speak for the MRD but DCNR officers in Alabama can legally search anyone engaging in hunting and fishing activities including boats and vehicles. Possession of fishing or hunting equipment or wearing camouflage gives them probable cause to conduct a warrantless search.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogman
Thank you, Chillinfish. I thought that was the case, but wasn't sure. Me, I always enjoyed inspecting Harley Rodgers' fish box---nearly always some trophy fish in there. "Ain't nothing in the shallows. Move on along."
Color me clueless or just uninformed, but why not just tell this "volunteer" no, you're not lookin' in my cooler? What gives him/her the authority to check me? Does he have a uniform or other LEO credentials? Not trying to make trouble, I just want to know...Quote:
Originally Posted by david lea
Would it hurt when using the 2 line trolley if you used Hi Vis line so others that are fishing could see the lines better. Just an Idea don't really know that much about fishing it.
I definitely use hi viz line for my trolley rigs, both trolley rod and bait rod. I even use a higher test line than normal so it's easier to see. Some people feel the need to use my trolley bait as a casting target, but I normally have little problem----except maybe from some kids who have not developed enough motor control to know where their lure is going. Also, when I hook a king and it heads out around the octi, I start yelling to let everyone know I have a fish on, and don't stop until I'm on the octi and have some chance of getting things under control. I've had other trolley fishermen inshore of me hook up and then get perturbed that I don't get out of their way---heck I didn't know the fish was coming my way---I lost my job with the Psychic Hotline years ago. As a general rule, all the trolley fishermen I've associated with have been friendly and helpful, but ain't nothing perfect (except for that one day I had back in '78, and nobody believes me anyhow).Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert(Tato)Piteo
Respecting the opinions of those learned pier fishermen voiced here, perhaps it's appropriate that this country boy from South Carolina express a view. First, the one rod rule makes little or no sense especially when the bite is slow. Most bottom fishermen can handle two rods efficiently, except when the bite is so prolific that all immediately discard one rod so that our fat asses don't have to move so fast. Nothing is more comical to a sightseer from Ottawa, Canada than stopping to observe an obese septuagenarian risk tripping over his bucket or buggy to get to the second rod. The profanity and the Keystone Cop routine would be a hit on America"s Funniest Videos.
That said, most rednecks like myself simply refuse to be observed by our northern brethren while in a potentially embarrassing situation.
Second, the one rod rule does absolutely nothing to that individual who can barely hit the Gulf from the rail without tangling two fishermen to his/her right or left. We've all seen them.
My solution would be to restrict all rental rods from casting, allowing them to only fish straight down. This way they might actually catch something to brag about. Possibly a croaker, whiting, or just maybe breaking off on a piling.
Spring is coming guys! Tight Lines!
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Originally Posted by 9iron
Here's my take on things.
1) I think that the pier should limit involvement of individuals who aren't real employees, but instead are unpaid volunteers. I think that those people may be possibly getting WAY too involved in matters having to do with power (telling other people what to do/what not to do).
2) I don't use bubble-rigs, but I'm certainly not going to tell another fellow how or where to catch his fish. He paid his nine bucks like everyone else.
3) The descriptions of "float" and "drift" fishing are so nebulous as to be totally unenforceable. Does it describe the bait, the presentation, the retrieve? Does "float" fishing require a float? If not, then how would it differ from "drift" fishing? Aren't pier rules, "the law"? If so, then how can they be enforced as law if they can't even be defined by the person enforcing them (which, again, should be a real pier employee)?
So here's my suggestion. I think that everyone who thinks that the proposed rules, as discussed, are misguided should register their objections with Joe, either in person or by email (so that there's a record of your dissatisfaction). I also think that this should be done sooner rather than later, because why wait until the rule is in effect to complain about it? I'll do the same and include my contention about the need to exclude volunteers from any role in rule decision making OR enforcement.
So it sounds like a no bullet Barney. Just with the gun so to speak.
As to the idea that a game warden or ranger has more authority for search and seizure than any other police department. That is a rumor that has been passed around for ages. It is just not true. I will not argue with it and if you think Im wrong show me the Alabama Law that give them the authority to circumvent the 4th Amendment.
I sent a message to Lamar last night explaining the situation with a certain person overstepping his authority. Im not posting public my message to him, but I did include his response below. I just explained with some detail what was going on.
Thanks I was wondering what was going on. This is good information I appreciate it. This will be addressed.
so lets see what happens
https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/20...-officers.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Hogman
Here is an onsite from yesterday around noon.
It was a nice day, a bit of color in the 4 ft waves, light SW wind, 75 degrees.
In the shallows it was very slow fishing, saw one small whiting caught. There were exactly 6 people fishing from the pier house to the Tee. Cher, Paula, and I were soaking some hooks (bait did not mater) and mostly visiting.
This guy that Cher knew to be JOE (wearing state clothing) approached us and said as he looked over my shoulder "just checking to make sure you are only using one rod".
I wanted to ask him if he had just scraped the floor of his hen house but just stifled my self.
What ever happened to common sense??? The one rod rule is a good one for most of time on the octi, no doubt. Strict enforcement there will not be welcomed by the sheepherders though. Elsewhere on the pier only rarely. We have all seen googans cause more trouble with one rod than 15 locals fishing 2 or 3 rods all at the same time together. In the 20 years that I have fished the shallows, multiple rods have always been acceptable when appropriate conditions are present. Our beloved Harley Rogers nearly always had more than one line out as did Roy and the rest. JOE does not know Harley, said so.
Any rule change proposal will hopefully consider the historic precedent of multiple rods north of the tee.
Needed to weigh in.
The number of people fishing should determine how many rods you have out. Just my opinion and if we get together with management will bring that up. How can you fish a 2 line trolly with only being able to fish only one rod a at a time.
Regarding the "one rod rule" - It would be easy enough to define a "rod in use" as one with a hook on the line. This shouldn't be that difficult.
again show me the law. An Alabama State Act!Quote:
Originally Posted by striperguy
Here you go:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogman
220-2-.12 Game Bag, Hunting Coat, Etc. Shall Be Open To Inspection. Pursuant to the Code of Ala. 1975, Sections 9-11-85 and 9-11-259, which provided in effect that all game birds, animals or fish taken or killed in this State must at all times be carried or transported openly and that all game birds, animals or fish carried or transported in an illegal manner shall be confiscated and disposed of under regulations by the Commissioner; any live box, holding box, game bag, hunting coat, camping equipment, or like receptacles, or any automobile or boat used for the carrying or holding of any fish, game birds, or game animals or any gun or fishing tackle used in hunting or fishing shall be subject to inspection by officers of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources at all times upon proper identification of said officer. Any person who refuses to allow inspection of the above named articles shall be in violation of this regulation and shall be punished as provided by law. Author: John W. Hodnett Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §§9-2-7, 9-2-12, 9-11-85, 9-11-259. History: Filed September 30, 1982. Amended: September 30, 1985. November 5, 1985
Here is a fine list for violations...
http://judicial.alabama.gov/docs/rul...Appendix_B.pdf
A few notable observations which may be observed on the pier (including violation fines) :
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220-3-.04(8) Discarding seafood less than 500' from shore inside waters $100
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220-3-.30(1) Possessing illegal fish - over bag limit $100
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220-3-.30(2) Possessing undersize fish $100
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220-3-.30(3) Using more than five hooks $100
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220-3-.77 Blood baiting for sharks $50
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9-11-53.1 Fishing without saltwater license (resident) $50
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9-11-53.5 Fishing without saltwater trip license (resident) $50
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9-11-55.2 Fishing without saltwater license (nonresident) $100
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220-3-.31(1) Possessing undersized blue crab $100
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9-11-94.1 No tarpon tag $100
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9-12-113.1 Selling, buying, trading, or bartering saltwater game fish $500
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220-3-.12(1) Possessing red fish/speckled sea trout for sale $250
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9-12-116 Refusal to be inspected $100
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And we are supposed to believe that law supersedes the Constitution? Sorry, but and law that doesn’t pass the merits of the constitution is not a valid law.
FREEDOM BREEDS APATHY!
And we are supposed to believe that law supersedes the Constitution? Sorry, but a law that doesn’t pass the merits of the constitution is not a valid law.
FREEDOM BREEDS APATHY!
This is the law in Arkansas as well. I'm curious if you were aware of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogman
Wildlife Officers shall be commissioned by the Commission and shall have the right to apprehend persons detected of violating any of the laws or regulations of the State enacted for the protection of game, fish, furbearing animals and other wildlife, and to take such offenders before any court having jurisdiction in the county where such offense is committed. Wildlife Officers shall be authorized to serve all processes issued by a court of competent jurisdiction relating to the enforcement of all laws and regulations pertaining to game, fish, furbearing animals, and other wildlife of the State; to go upon any property outside of private dwellings, posted or otherwise, in the performance of their duties; to carry firearms while performing duties; and to conduct searches with or without a warrant according to law. Additionally, Wildlife Officers lawfully present in any place may, in the performance of their duties, stop and detain any person who they reasonably suspect is, or recently has been, involved in any hunting, fishing, or trapping activity to conduct an administrative inspection to determine whether the person is in compliance with the laws and regulations of the State enacted for the protection of game, fish, furbearing animals, and other wildlife. Wildlife Officers may request that the person stopped and detained immediately surrender the following items for inspection: all killing devices, licenses, permits, tags, stamps, check sheets, ice chests, game bags, game vests, wildlife, fishing tackle, equipment used for hunting or fishing, or containers that can reasonably hold wildlife (Code 05.30).Sheriffs, constables and other law enforcement officers certified by the State of Arkansas, and special agents and employees of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service and U.S. Forest Service who have been authorized to enforce laws and regulations administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior or U.S. Department of Agriculture shall, upon request by the Commission and upon proper oath or affirmation, have authority to make arrests, searches and seizures for violations of State game and fish laws and regulations. They shall serve without compensation from the Commission in the discharge of those duties. Wildlife Officers may be appointed as special agents by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and shall have the additional authority conferred upon them by that agency. They shall serve without extra compensation in the discharge of those duties.
Here is the link:
https://apps.agfc.com/regulations/01.00-B